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	<title>Comments on: The Chinese GP Aftermath; FIA 3, Ferrari 0</title>
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	<link>http://www.gripandhammer.com/2009/04/22/the-chinese-gp-aftermath-fia-3-ferrari-0/</link>
	<description>From Running workouts to Motorsport reviews; we grip life by the horns and hammer away!</description>
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		<title>By: Funkmother</title>
		<link>http://www.gripandhammer.com/2009/04/22/the-chinese-gp-aftermath-fia-3-ferrari-0/comment-page-1/#comment-1249</link>
		<dc:creator>Funkmother</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Apr 2009 03:49:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gripandhammer.com/?p=270#comment-1249</guid>
		<description>To answer your question Bernie, article 4 of the 2009 F1 Technical Regulations states that the weight of the car must not be less than 605kg at all times during the event.  I had thought previously that that weight included the driver which is why they weigh the drivers immediately after the event.  Anyway, there&#039;s nothing in article 4 or in article 5 which discusses engines and KERS that says that the weight is taken after removing the KERS.  And when you think about it, this would mean scrutineers having to remove the KERS before weighing the cars and this would be inconvenient.

All cars are built below the minimum weight to allow for the addition of ballast to allow the correct weight distribution.  This is something that pre-dates the introduction of KERS.  What KERS does is to compromise this weight distribution because the addition of KERS means you can&#039;t add as much ballast otherwise the car becomes too heavy and hence uncompetitive.  The addition of the KERS system typically requires the removal of ballast from some area of the car potentially causing a sub-optimal weight distribution.  Conversely, the removal of KERS provides more options for ballast allowing for better weight distribution.  

The incident I remember with Mark and Seb V in Japan was the first of the &quot;new era&quot; races at Fuji two years ago when Seb&#039;s Torro Rosso ran into the back of Mark&#039;s Red Bull under safety car.  An unfortunate mistake but Seb was allowed that one as a rookie.  I agree that car setups would&#039;ve been out of whack in Shanghai unless someone was clever enough to see the rain coming and opt for a wet or in-between setup but I&#039;m not aware of anybody doing that.

I wouldn&#039;t say you&#039;re bashing Ferrari but you do seem to be a supporter.  Hell, does it matter whether you&#039;re a true believer or just a supporter or in fact who you support?  As long as you can continue to enjoy the sport in spite of all of the soap opera, then keep on doing what you&#039;re doing.  

Cheers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To answer your question Bernie, article 4 of the 2009 F1 Technical Regulations states that the weight of the car must not be less than 605kg at all times during the event.  I had thought previously that that weight included the driver which is why they weigh the drivers immediately after the event.  Anyway, there&#8217;s nothing in article 4 or in article 5 which discusses engines and KERS that says that the weight is taken after removing the KERS.  And when you think about it, this would mean scrutineers having to remove the KERS before weighing the cars and this would be inconvenient.</p>
<p>All cars are built below the minimum weight to allow for the addition of ballast to allow the correct weight distribution.  This is something that pre-dates the introduction of KERS.  What KERS does is to compromise this weight distribution because the addition of KERS means you can&#8217;t add as much ballast otherwise the car becomes too heavy and hence uncompetitive.  The addition of the KERS system typically requires the removal of ballast from some area of the car potentially causing a sub-optimal weight distribution.  Conversely, the removal of KERS provides more options for ballast allowing for better weight distribution.  </p>
<p>The incident I remember with Mark and Seb V in Japan was the first of the &#8220;new era&#8221; races at Fuji two years ago when Seb&#8217;s Torro Rosso ran into the back of Mark&#8217;s Red Bull under safety car.  An unfortunate mistake but Seb was allowed that one as a rookie.  I agree that car setups would&#8217;ve been out of whack in Shanghai unless someone was clever enough to see the rain coming and opt for a wet or in-between setup but I&#8217;m not aware of anybody doing that.</p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t say you&#8217;re bashing Ferrari but you do seem to be a supporter.  Hell, does it matter whether you&#8217;re a true believer or just a supporter or in fact who you support?  As long as you can continue to enjoy the sport in spite of all of the soap opera, then keep on doing what you&#8217;re doing.  </p>
<p>Cheers.</p>
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		<title>By: BernieR</title>
		<link>http://www.gripandhammer.com/2009/04/22/the-chinese-gp-aftermath-fia-3-ferrari-0/comment-page-1/#comment-1231</link>
		<dc:creator>BernieR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 15:51:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gripandhammer.com/?p=270#comment-1231</guid>
		<description>FuMo,

First and foremost, thank you for visiting the site.  I really do appreciate it and your comments and they are valid.

The only problem with the KERS setup after removing it is whether or not the teams filled those gaps where the system (batteries) was with ballast.  In an effort to make the car as light as possible does the car meet the weight limit before or after the KERS system?  From my understanding (and I&#039;ve been wrong on more than one occasion), the teams weighed in the cars (during development and design) before the KERS so if they run without it then they wouldn&#039;t be penalized.  Adding ballast in cars that have little place to put ballast is tight enough as it is.  Adding the weight of the KERS is the penalty for the additional horsepower.  However, since Ferrari developed the car with the KERS in place and if they met the weight limits according to the rules, then they would have better freedom to put ballast wherever they pleased to balance out the car.  This is something that I can&#039;t seem to validate though.

Yes, Webber has done his fair share of mistakes too.  Funny that you should mention Silverstone, I believe I remember the incident after you mentioned it. Seb Vettel has also been unlucky in the rain.  However, it seems that if he can get out front in the rain, then he&#039;s spectacular by pulling away from everyone (which happened to be the only other race that he was in front, Monza).  In an attempt to pull from my fading memory, didn&#039;t he have a horrible incident with Webber in Japan last year (in the rain)?  I guess something else to consider is that qualifying was done in the dry versus the race in the rain.  So I&#039;m sure that car setups were all out of whack for everyone.

Perhaps you are right that I may not be a &quot;true Ferrari fan&quot;.  I myself have been questioning that lately.  However, at the end of the day I am still cheering for them regardless.  I definitely favor Kimi over Massa but when it comes down to it, I still cheer for the team over any other team.  (Also, if you saw my entertainment room, it&#039;s all Ferrari and Subaru memorabilia).  I may be bashing on them now (if that&#039;s what I&#039;m doing) but I&#039;m really just hoping that they&#039;ll do better.  Some may know it as &quot;Tough Love&quot;.  To you, I may be only a Ferrari fan compared to your friends, however, I&#039;d still like to think of myself as a true Ferrari fan.  

Thank you again and I hope to see back here soon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FuMo,</p>
<p>First and foremost, thank you for visiting the site.  I really do appreciate it and your comments and they are valid.</p>
<p>The only problem with the KERS setup after removing it is whether or not the teams filled those gaps where the system (batteries) was with ballast.  In an effort to make the car as light as possible does the car meet the weight limit before or after the KERS system?  From my understanding (and I&#8217;ve been wrong on more than one occasion), the teams weighed in the cars (during development and design) before the KERS so if they run without it then they wouldn&#8217;t be penalized.  Adding ballast in cars that have little place to put ballast is tight enough as it is.  Adding the weight of the KERS is the penalty for the additional horsepower.  However, since Ferrari developed the car with the KERS in place and if they met the weight limits according to the rules, then they would have better freedom to put ballast wherever they pleased to balance out the car.  This is something that I can&#8217;t seem to validate though.</p>
<p>Yes, Webber has done his fair share of mistakes too.  Funny that you should mention Silverstone, I believe I remember the incident after you mentioned it. Seb Vettel has also been unlucky in the rain.  However, it seems that if he can get out front in the rain, then he&#8217;s spectacular by pulling away from everyone (which happened to be the only other race that he was in front, Monza).  In an attempt to pull from my fading memory, didn&#8217;t he have a horrible incident with Webber in Japan last year (in the rain)?  I guess something else to consider is that qualifying was done in the dry versus the race in the rain.  So I&#8217;m sure that car setups were all out of whack for everyone.</p>
<p>Perhaps you are right that I may not be a &#8220;true Ferrari fan&#8221;.  I myself have been questioning that lately.  However, at the end of the day I am still cheering for them regardless.  I definitely favor Kimi over Massa but when it comes down to it, I still cheer for the team over any other team.  (Also, if you saw my entertainment room, it&#8217;s all Ferrari and Subaru memorabilia).  I may be bashing on them now (if that&#8217;s what I&#8217;m doing) but I&#8217;m really just hoping that they&#8217;ll do better.  Some may know it as &#8220;Tough Love&#8221;.  To you, I may be only a Ferrari fan compared to your friends, however, I&#8217;d still like to think of myself as a true Ferrari fan.  </p>
<p>Thank you again and I hope to see back here soon.</p>
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		<title>By: Funkmother</title>
		<link>http://www.gripandhammer.com/2009/04/22/the-chinese-gp-aftermath-fia-3-ferrari-0/comment-page-1/#comment-1218</link>
		<dc:creator>Funkmother</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 05:23:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gripandhammer.com/?p=270#comment-1218</guid>
		<description>Interesting comments.  I don&#039;t feel the removal of KERS should have disrupted the Ferrari weight distribution.  Surely its removal would&#039;ve necessitated the addition of ballast which the team could&#039;ve used to restore the weight distribution.  

Seb V being good in the rain?  Well, I can only remember his winning performance in Monza in 2008.  Other than that, I&#039;m not aware of his wet weather credentials.  Still, that may be more the result of my poor memory than anything else.  Kimi being passed by other drivers you allege are &quot;not as good&quot; demonstrates how exquisitely F1 performance depends on the car and not the driver in this age.  Totally agree though on your comments about Lewis&#039; numerous spins.  Definitely concur he was pushing his equipment beyond its limit for the conditions.

I would also agree that Mark is really unlucky but its not always because people run into him.  He&#039;s done his share of running into other people too.  And he&#039;s had technical faults and I seem to remember a wet race in Silverstone where he spun a few times.  But generally he is unlucky.

Your comment that I really want to question though is that you are a true Ferrari fan.  To declare my interest, I am not a Ferrari fan but I have known a number of Ferrari fans that have supported them through thick and thin.  I have to question your claim though when you say you will continue to support them &quot;as long as Kimi drives for them.&quot;  The true Ferrari fans I know would support them whether Kimi drives for them or not.  May I suggest that you are just a Ferrari fan and not a true Ferrari fan.

Cheers,

FuMo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting comments.  I don&#8217;t feel the removal of KERS should have disrupted the Ferrari weight distribution.  Surely its removal would&#8217;ve necessitated the addition of ballast which the team could&#8217;ve used to restore the weight distribution.  </p>
<p>Seb V being good in the rain?  Well, I can only remember his winning performance in Monza in 2008.  Other than that, I&#8217;m not aware of his wet weather credentials.  Still, that may be more the result of my poor memory than anything else.  Kimi being passed by other drivers you allege are &#8220;not as good&#8221; demonstrates how exquisitely F1 performance depends on the car and not the driver in this age.  Totally agree though on your comments about Lewis&#8217; numerous spins.  Definitely concur he was pushing his equipment beyond its limit for the conditions.</p>
<p>I would also agree that Mark is really unlucky but its not always because people run into him.  He&#8217;s done his share of running into other people too.  And he&#8217;s had technical faults and I seem to remember a wet race in Silverstone where he spun a few times.  But generally he is unlucky.</p>
<p>Your comment that I really want to question though is that you are a true Ferrari fan.  To declare my interest, I am not a Ferrari fan but I have known a number of Ferrari fans that have supported them through thick and thin.  I have to question your claim though when you say you will continue to support them &#8220;as long as Kimi drives for them.&#8221;  The true Ferrari fans I know would support them whether Kimi drives for them or not.  May I suggest that you are just a Ferrari fan and not a true Ferrari fan.</p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<p>FuMo.</p>
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